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Law school: the big lie

Every year tens of thousands of wannabe lawyers enter law school. The majority will be extremely disappointed by their career opportunities.

Thus the title of this essay: law school is a big lie. People enter law school with the idea that a law degree is their ticket to a comfortable upper middle class lifestyle. In fact, just the opposite, law school for most is a ticket to a worse financial state than if they had not attended at all.

This news is hard for people to accept, because “everyone knows” that lawyers make a lot of money. Right? Well look at the salaries for government lawyers in your area. They probably start in the 30s. Why would anyone take a job paying in the 30s if law jobs pay six figures? They wouldn’t. After a decade or more of service to the state, you salary will most likely max out in the five figures. That’s a pretty lousy salary for a job that requires three years of graduate school education. There are plenty of people without any graduate education earning six figures, and they don’t have to pay back the student loans that lawyers have to take out in order to pay for law school. Bill Gates is the richest man in the world and he doesn’t even have an undergraduate degree.

There are some lawyers who start out with a good salary. They work for what they call “BIGLAW” on the internet message boards. Big law firms pay their associates a starting salary in the six figures. But here’s the sad news: only a tiny percentage of law school graduates will ever get these six figure jobs at big law firms. Unless you go to a top law school, the six figure big law firm job will most likely not be yours.

There are only 14 top law schools. That’s right. Not 10, not 15, but 14. They are, in descending order of prestige: Yale, Harvard, Stanford, Columbia, NYU, Chicago, University of Pennsylvania, University of Michigan, University of Virginia, Duke, Northwestern, Cornell, UC Berkeley, and Georgetown. And that’s it. Go to any other law school, and your chances of getting a big law firm job will be slim to none.

There are also distinct levels of prestige within the top 14. Yale, Harvard, and Stanford are head and shoulders above the rest. Then Columbia, NYU and maybe Chicago round out the top 6. Attending one of these top top law schools will vastly improve your odds. The guy graduating at the bottom of the class at Harvard will have better career opportunities than the guy graduating at the top of the class at an ordinary law school.

Outside of the top law schools, the only law school graduates having decent job opportunities will be those who graduated in the top ten percent of the class and who made law review. Law review and top ten percent are usually the same people because at most law schools the law review members are selected from those whose grades are in the top ten percent at the end of the first year. If like me, your grades weren’t in the top ten percent at the end of the first year, but you managed to graduate in the top ten percent, you are screwed because you weren’t on law review. Furthermore, most big law firms make offers to their summer associates, who get interviewed and hired during the second half of the second year, thus it’s mostly your grades during the first three semesters of law school that determine your entire legal future.

If you are reading this, and you’re a law student who already received your first semester grades, and they aren’t top ten percent, then my advice is to drop out now instead of throwing more money down the law school black hole.

Despite being warned that the only way to get a decent job in law if one attends a non-top 14 school is to make law review and the top ten percent, tens of thousands of suckers will enroll anyway. They think “I will be the one who makes the top ten percent” or “even if I don’t make the top ten percent, things will work out.” Let’s state the odds clearly: 90% of the class will not make the top 10%. You are not the only person in law school thinking they are going to bust their ass to make the top ten percent. 80% of the people start out thinking they are going to bust their ass. And some people from the 20% who are slackers are going to wind up in the top 10% too, because law school grades have a huge random element. One of the biggest slacker/party girls in my first year law school class made the top 10%. She wound up getting a high paying job at a big law firm because the law school gods decided to randomly grace her during her first semester.

The law schools will trick prospective students with bogus statistics about the great career opportunities available to graduates. Don’t believe everything you read. First of all, there are the documented lies, like the admissions brochure for my law school alma mater, Arizona State University College of Law (ASU), which listed the average starting salary for graduates with job offers at graduation from private law firms. But what percentage of the class graduates with a job offer in hand from a private law firm? About 10%? Trumpeting the average salary for 10% of the class is damned deceptive.

I further suspect that some law schools outright lie on their reported career placement statistics. Think about public companies. They have a strong incentive to lie on their financial statements, so that is why they have to prepare their statements in accordance with generally accepted accounting principles, and the accounting has to be audited by an independent public accounting firm. Despite these safeguards, companies like Enron are still caught lying on their financial statements.

Law school career placement statistics do not have to be prepared in accordance with generally accepted principles, and they aren’t audited by independent public accountants. Therefore they can’t be trusted. Don’t be fooled into thinking that because they are “non-profit” they can be trusted, or that they are run only for the benefit of the public. There’s no such thing as no one making a profit. “Non-profit” only means that no one owns the residual profits from the law school, there are plenty of stakeholders making out like bandits. Law schools are run for the benefit of the law professors who have cushy six figure jobs, and the money for their salaries comes from the gullible suckers called law students.

How cushy is a job as a law professor? Law professors earn six figures and only have to work six hours a week. And they get summers off too. How much better can it get? That’s right, law professors are only allowed to teach six hours of classes a week. If they taught more than six hours a week, the law school would lose its accreditation. Maybe some of the new law professors have to spend some time preparing for class, but by the time the law professor has a few years under his belt, he knows the material cold. Some of the older law professors were able to recite the entire textbook without ever even looking at it. In class one day, all the students looked quizzically at the law professor while he recited the exact details of a case that wasn’t in the textbook. Finally this was brought to his attention. It turns out that he was reciting from the last edition of the book. He didn’t even bother to look at the textbook in front of him to see that the case wasn’t in there.

The only time that law professors have to do any real work is when they grade exams. And law school exams are only given once at the end of the semester. So we are talking about two weeks of real work at the end of each semester. And in one case, a law professor at ASU, Dale Furnish, was apparently too lazy to even put in his two weeks of work and he made up fake grades for the students in his class. When his deception was discovered, all he got was a temporary suspension, and a short time later he was back at law school teaching law.

So we see, law professors have cushy jobs, therefore they have a strong incentive to lie on the career placement statistics because those are equivalent to a for-profit company’s financial statements, and it’s what the prospective law students look at to decide if they want to “invest” in the law school education.

Another fallacy that prospective law students hold onto is that the law degree has some kind of value outside of law. They think, “if I don’t practice law, at least it’s a prestigious degree that will help my non-law career.” This is completely false. Having a law degree hurts your chances of getting non-law jobs. No one wants to hire you if you have a law degree. Because “everyone knows” that lawyers make so much money, they can’t understand why someone with a law degree would want to do anything else but practice law. If you say “I couldn’t find a job practicing law.” which is probably the truth, they will think “this person is a loser because everyone know how easy it is to find a job practicing law, and we don’t hire losers around here.” If you say “I was just exploring my options but decided I didn’t want to practice law,” then they will think “this person has no idea what he wants to do, we want to hire people who know where their career is going.” There is absolutely no way to spin the law degree in a way that it helps you get a non-law job. Hiring managers are looking for cookie cutter resumes, not resumes where people have education unrelated to the job. From their perspective, they’re not hiring a lawyer so they don’t give a crap if you know how to synthesize appellate cases (assuming they even know what “synthesize appellate cases” means, which is unlikely). The only way I have been able to find any jobs outside of law is to leave the law degree off my resume. Whenever the law degree has been on my resume, it has been the kiss of death that prevents me from finding a job.

Finally, this essay would be incomplete if it didn’t discuss the burden of student loans. Whatever salary you make after graduating from law school has to be discounted by the cost of your student loan repayments. The student loan payments are not tax deductible (except to a very limited extent which will likely not apply to you). Your marginal tax rate will probably be around 45%, which means that for every $100/month in student loan payments, you need to have a stated additional salary of $182/month to cover the student loan payments. This means that if your law school education adds $500/month in student loan payments, you are paying $6,000/year in student loans and you need to earn an extra $10,910/year to cover the payments. This means that a $40,000/year job as a law school graduate gives you the equivalent disposable income of a $29,090/year job if you didn’t have a law degree. And it’s a lot easier to find a $29,000/year job with a bachelor’s degree than it is to find a $40,000/year job with a law degree.

Even if you are one of the rare and lucky law school graduates who can obtain a six figure job at a big law firm, those jobs are rumored to suck. I can’t say much about this because I never worked at a big law firm, but according to what I’ve been told, a large percentage of the partners at big law firms are assholes who treat their associates like crap and make them work ridiculously long hours. Some of this may be unjustified whining, because I was treated like crap at a job where I was making $9/hour. Nevertheless, one needs to consider that the ultimate goal of law school, a big law firm job, attained by only a small percentage of law school graduates, may not be the great reward it’s supposed to be.

I predict that some prospective law students will find this essay, read it, and not believe it. Because no matter how much you try to tell a prospective law student the truth about law, they don’t believe it. “Everyone knows” that lawyers make a lot of money, how can this be true? Believe me, it’s true, and if you attend law school you will learn this the hard way. Don’t waste three years of your life and go into tens of thousands of dollars of debt that can never be discharged in bankruptcy to find out that your career opportunities suck after all that. For the love of God, learn the truth now.

Links to related essays:

Mike Davis aka Walter Waldhauser - Mike Davis was a student in my law school class at ASU who we later learned had been convicted of murdering three people. Not to be confused with James Hamm, another convicted murderer who attended law school at ASU.

Do companies really want to hire the best employees? - A contrarian perspective on hiring practices in corporate America.

posted Sunday, August 29, 2004

32 Comments:

By Themis:

I agree that law school is not an automatic ticket to easy street. But I think its necessary to take a long term perspective, and over the course of a career you will probably make more as a lawyer than without the law degree. OK - I went to one of the 14 schools, but plenty of people at the next tier of schools (15-40) also do fairly well without having to be in the top 10%. I also disagree with setting government salaries as the baseline - most lawyers are in private practice, and most lawyers with 10 years of experience in private practice do a lot better than public sector lawyers - and that has little to do with where you go to school and how you do.

Furthermore, the opportunity to not just be an employee but to have a share in a law firm is pretty rare in this day and age. And because lawyers build up experience over time, you do not run the same risk of being laid off as a middle-manager who is too specialized to be of use somewhere else - there's always a need for experienced lawyers, it's just a question of how you are in the pecking order.

I do not dispute the incentive of law schools to exagerate their placement records. And as far as the non-elite law schools, it is even harder to be in the top 10% than most people relaize. At most of these schools, about 10% of the class is made up of scholarship students - who were given a deal: they pay little or not tuition. And their above average track records assures the school that it will have some stars with successful careers that it can trumpet to prospective students. Take that into consideration in calculating your odds for finishing at the top.

And I agree that the big firm life is difficult. I never imagined I could work 60, 70, 80 hours a week for years on end at rather tedious tasks. But the $100 an hour is a living wage - I can support my family by myself.

Overall, I believe you're better off as a professional in a thriving field where there is a lot of demand. And if you can't go to medical school, law school does offer security not available in other careers. My vote for the Big Lie goes to non-professional, non-business graduate programs. The career prospects and risk/reward radio for M.A. and Ph.D. candidates is much worse that for law school. You see a lot more unemployed M.A./Ph.Ds than J.D./MBAs, and a lot more students drop out of the former programs than the later once they figure out their prospects. I know a number of M.A./Ph.D. dropouts - and, worse, people who finished those degrees and now have jobs that have nothing to do with their degree.

posted at 9/10/2004 1:38 PM

By Muchnik:

I find this article inherently deceitful and containing a plethora untrue "facts" and statements.

I only wish to comment on one factual discrepancy in particular: there is no such thing as a 45% "marginal tax rate." The highest rate that currently payable in the US by individual taxpayers is 35%, and that's if, and only on the amount that, they make in excess of $319,100 a year.
http://www.givingto.msu.edu/pgaol/html/2004_federal_income_tax_rates.html

posted at 10/29/2004 10:31 AM

By Calico Cat:

After one factors in FICA taxes and state and local income taxes, 45% is a typical marginal tax rate paid by people living in places with high local taxes such as New York City or Washington, DC.

posted at 11/01/2004 11:16 AM

By ScarletBegonia01:

Wait ok so I am applying to law school soon...does that mean Im screwed if lets say I go to number 22 instead of number 14...what about number 38...shouldn't a top 50 school make a difference? Am I never going to get a job if I dont go to one of these 14?? Someone PLEASE tell me!

posted at 11/01/2004 2:18 PM

By Bisandros:

You are so right. I went to a fourth-tier law school. When I got out, I realized the mistake I had made. I owe 69,000 dollars. The job prospects are poor (many friends that have gotten a job are making in the upper 30's as public defenders. And remember, this is BEFORE paying taxes). And to top it off, I feel as if being a lawyer is not for me. You deal with people at their worst moments, and you deal with other lawyers (who are ALWAYS at their worst--most lawyers having horrid personalities). The work is often boring as well.

posted at 11/16/2004 3:47 PM

By Jim:

As an employer in public relations, I get a lot of practicing attorneys, including clients, who tell me they'd like to have my job. Initially, I found that odd. After a few years and about a dozen instances, I noticed that the attorneys I know really aren't a very happy bunch of men and women. I guess that since my work focused on the positive message, they thought my job was better. But you know, after the timesheets, client meetings, partner meetings and dealing with the rabid reporters in the media and the fickle court of public opinion, I'm not so sure.
I can tell you this...I'm damn glad I didn't go to law or medical school. Most of the professionals I meet who did aren't very happy and I get a distinct sense that what their lives are about now is not what they expected when they graduated.

posted at 3/13/2005 12:58 AM

By flaves:

Your general point is right, but many of your facts are wrong. I agree that law schools churn out mostly debtors, but not to the extent you posit. First of all, it isn't solely the top-14 schools (which change every year, by the way) that have high employment rates at top firms. Schools that may not current be in the top 14, but are in many years, primarily USC, UCLA, and Texas, place every bit as well or better than some of those you have listed. Also, schools such as Vanderbilt and Minnesota, a notch below, do really well.

The bottom line is that nearly all graduates of top-20 schools get a good return on their investment. And the fact that Georgetown is top-14 this year doesn't mean that it will be the next. You're taking a look at a snapshot (from US News, no less) and drawing conclusions you wouldn't if you knew more about the subject.

Again, your point is well taken, but you clearly don't know too much about the law school game.

posted at 3/16/2005 10:29 PM

By flaves:

posted at 3/16/2005 10:33 PM

By Chris:

I would absolutely love to see a quote from any legitimate professional in law who mentions anything about a "top 14." This is a bogus concept completely created via internet boards. The fact that you use this as a key point makes anything else in your statements inherently questionable. You are an idiot.

posted at 4/14/2005 12:11 AM

By c747:

As a single parent who has struggled to make it through my undergrad and spent the last 3 years trying to get things in order for law school, this essay is frightening. I recieved my degree in English, and that is a hard sell at an interview. It sucks to spend that amount of time in a difficult area of study and find out it is useless. That is ok. I am going to use the degree to get into lawschool, and quite frankly, I believ anyone who communicates for a living should have to have one. I hope that this essy does not disuade potential students from attending school. It concerns me that the author makes the claim tha he/she graduated in the top 10% from a school that is decent, and he/she cannot find something more than a job making $9 an hour. I think it is iimportant to note that school is what you make of it. Colleges are filled with kids that are necessary to pay the school bills. Most of these kids dont even care. I anticipate lawschool to be different, but in someways the same. Nobody goes into school thinking, "I am going to be a an average atty," but I know many attys who are comfortable. I think my biggest concern is in the posted comments. Is unhappiness that rampant? I am an insurance adjuster, and this is the most unhappy I have ever been at a job, but the pay makes it tolerable. Is this not the case practicing law? Should I abort what I have been working towards; what I have already hurled myself into unfathomable debt to achieve? I don't want to be unhappy. Maybe I'll get a tattoo gun.

posted at 4/18/2005 1:30 AM

By Kris:

You're very mistaken with your theories on employment and the top 14. I got to a law school in the lower 50 of the "top 100." I am set to graduate in the 40th percentile of my class in 2 weeks, take the Bar exam, and walk into a big firm job paying 6 figures. Law school is what you make of it...I received avg grades, but I did a lot of networking and job searching which led to great internships. These internships, in turn, dinstinguished me from my competition (even the students in the top 10%).

So, you can get a big firm job by going to a school outside of the top 14. The correct limitation with not going to one of these schools is that you'll be stuck practicing in very close proximity to where you went to law school. But, that's why you choose to go to law school where you'd like to practice.

And, finally...big firm jobs are not the only way to make money as a lawyer. In fact, I don't see how a person could work for a big firm for such a long time. The hours, commitment, politics, and greed are down-right disgusting. I know plenty of attorneys making very good $ working in small firms where they are partners.

One word of advice to prospective law students: Law school requires commitment, discipline, and maturity. I would advise one to take a year or two off after undergrad before entering. Work somewhere, do something in the real world then go in. It has it's ups and downs...You're gonna work hard...but it will be worth it.

posted at 4/26/2005 12:00 AM

By anastatia:

I definitely don't think it's true that you can't land a six figure job with a big firm if you didn't go to one of the 14 top law schools. I graduated from Vanderbilt in 2003, during a bad legal hiring market, and I would estimate that approximately 70% of the students in my graduating class went on to 6 figure jobs at big firms.
As for long hours and tedious tasks in the early years of private practice, what can you expect for the amount of money that firms are paying associates with minimal experience as lawyers? They aren't paying six figure salaries out of the goodness of their hearts.

posted at 5/02/2005 2:57 PM

By tulsagrad:

Although the points made by Calico Cat are not absolutes, they are generally true.
If you are considering law school as a means to financial rewards you truly need to do some accounting:
- How many hours will I typically have to work (way more than the normal professional).
- How much debt will I acquire and have to pay off (this will likely be sizable for most of you.)
- What is it worth to put up with unhappy and/or unhappy partners, co-associates, and clients.
However, if you are wanting to go to law school to get some intangibles such as logical thinking and improved communication skills, then I would recommend it. But in this instance, look for your cheapest option so as to avoid a huge amount of debt.
And yes, the law schools do love to "cook" their books when it comes to employment and salary statistics. I was dooped by the Univeristy of Tulsa and recall that they considered my part-time, non-legal, temporary job to be full employment when their career office was conducting post-graduation interviews (it took me several months to even get that job.)
The one thing that Calico Cat left out was that you can acquire a job if you and/or your family members have connections. Otherwise, most of you will need to attend a top-tier law school, finish at or extremely near the top of your class, be selected for law review, and work at a well-respected summer clerkship.

posted at 5/11/2005 12:53 AM

By AK919:

I completely agree. Before I entered law school, I was a successful stock trader and the reason why I went to law was to achieve some sense of security in my life.

I went to a 4th tier school (the highest I could have probably qualified for was 3rd tier) because it was the only 2-year school in the nation.

When I entered law school I studied 12-16 hours per day and had very little discretionary income. I had a great first semester (a 4.0 GPA) but I got exhausted very quickly and my competition was wising up fast.

My grades were average by the time I graduated and all I had under me was an internship in a boutique firm. To make matters worse, I could barely cover my living expenses between the time I was studying for the bar and the time when I got my bar results. For the first time in my entire life I had my electricity turned off :(

Anyway once I got my bar results, the only offer I got was from the boutique firm in Westchester, NY that I interned. The firm only paid $50k/yr with an opportunity of getting a raise to $60k after 3 months.

I worked 50-90 hours per week at that firm with little time for myself and limited funds to make use of any free time I had. My net pay was just under $2,800 per month and I could barely make ends meet.

Anyway, after 3 months my raise never came so I decided to work way fewer hours because at that point I wouldnt even be satisfied with a $60k/yr salary.

The culture of the firm is completely intolerable because the legal assistants give attitude, the receptionist is slow and rude and the boss has the most volatile temper I have ever seen; boy what a dysfunctional firm I have to work for!

The legal assistant doesnt do anything that I ask of her and always finds an excuse for not doing anything. The receptionist is very cold and slow working and one of the secretaries although her heart is in the right place is a disaster!

Instead of devoting most of my time to my firm, I decided to work the standard 35 hour work week. Fortunately for me, I was also retained part-time to represent a corporation that operates in multiple states. Now with the consent of my employer I am working 7 days per week and earning something close to six figures.

Before I entered law school I had a feeling that if I dont go to a top tier school, there's no point in going. I went anyway and paid the price for it.

Had I known how difficult the 1st year out of law school would have been for me, I would have never gone to law school and instead went for an MBA in a top tier business school (My GPA and GMAT scores qualified me for any business school in the country).

For those of you going to law school, I strongly recommend that you either go to a 1st-tier school or seek another profession because career propects of very brutal.

posted at 5/20/2005 3:50 PM

By walewai:

Its hard to find any type of job(legal or not) without connections, bottom line. Stop whinning and be glad you accomplished something. Law school is a big accomplishment and most people didnt go to law school just to start out making six figueres. I went to learn something---hello?!!!

posted at 6/09/2005 10:41 AM

By Saffron:

It is no wonder that you are disappointed with your career; your essay clearly demonstrates that your logical reasoning ability never truly qualified you for a career in the legal field anyway.

posted at 7/24/2005 7:10 PM

By hades:

This post was hillarious.

"There are only 14 top law schools."
"Go to any other law school, and your chances of getting a big law firm job will be slim to none."
"
Outside of the top law schools, the only law school graduates having decent job opportunities will be those who graduated in the top ten percent of the class and who made law review."

"Having a law degree hurts your chances of getting non-law jobs. No one wants to hire you if you have a law degree."

"If you are reading this, and you’re a law student who already received your first semester grades, and they aren’t top ten percent, then my advice is to drop out "

"those jobs are rumored to suck. I can’t say much about this because I never worked at a big law firm, but according to what I’ve been told, a large percentage of the partners at big law firms are assholes."

This post would be great but for the fact that some people may actually believe any of it. Ironically, I started out out ASU Law and teh transferred to one of the schools right outside of "the top 14" and all I can say is that the only people who wanted $100,000+ jobs and couldn't land them were the real bozos in our class. The only "big lie" uncovered in this post is that chimps aren't allowed to get Wharton degrees.

posted at 7/30/2005 4:59 PM

By bmwz30:

Uh...what the...?!!!&%#@$@%&$ I can't believe this guy. Absolutely no one should believe this stuff.

First, the grim nuances of law school prospects for middle-acheivers and students at so-called "non-top-14" schools is grossly over-exaggerated.

It is true that someone from, say, a Chapman University Law School, will not receive the accolades of a student from the other L.A. Schools (USC or UCLA). Doors are frequently closed to students from less reputable schools, including jobs at large firms, academia and prestigious government jobs.

However, many successful attorneys attorneys have come from schools like Loyola (C.A.), UC Davis Chicago Kent or Cardozo (NY) to name a few...and none of these are so-called top-20 schools.

And what does this article mean? Try telling a graduate from Vanderbilt, Boston U, Boston College, George Washington U, UC Davis, Fordham, Cardozo (NY), Brooklyn Law School, Ohio State U, Loyola (CA or Chicago), Chicago Kent or Howard U that they are not employable. He/She will laugh...LOUDLY!!

Students at Howard University, a so-called "3rd tier" law school, earn a median average of $100,000/year to start! Santa Clara graduates can expect the same...and ditto U-San Francisco.

A top-10% student from most any law school will raise eyebrows, as proven by students like the late Johnny Cochran (Loyola). And, contrary to the writer's belief, there are many industries in which a law school graduate may excel and prosper financially.

For example, one Loyola graduate started the DADA Tennis Shoe Company and it is doing fine thankuverymuch!! Other law graduates from lower ranked schools are employed on Wall Street or as executives in large business firms.

Still, the arts communities have benefitted as well. Where would screenwriters such as John Grisham go if not for legal education.

Commissioner David Stern of the National Basketball Association is a graduate of Columbia University Law School and he hasn't defended anyone in court to my knowledge.

The writer also fails to consider the fact that most students simply pick the wrong schools for them, not in terms of some heoretical ranking system, but in terms of content, geography, class size, philosophy and networks.

For instance, a student desiring a career in entertainment law should attend a school in CA or NY where even schools like 3rd tier Southwestern are "plugged into" the industry.

A student from Southwestern has as much opportunity to enter the industry as a top Georgetown grad. And if you want to study environmental law, go to Vermont or Lewis & Clark in Oregon...

The academia narket is every bit as politicical and confusing. While most top school grads suck up the prestigious tenure track professor jobs at top law schools, there are still teaching jobs available to law graduates in the undergraduate sector (in political science, sociology, African-American Studies, women's studies, etc).

Hence, opportunities for success exist in many forms. Schools do, in fact, pad their statsm but not to the degree which is posited. DO NOT BELIEVE THIS MAN...HE IS A BITTER, JADED INDIVIDUAL WHO NEEDS OTHERS TO FAIL AS HE HAS ALREADY DONE.

posted at 8/17/2005 6:09 PM

By OneJD:

I have one thing to say: you're dumb. After reading your blog anybody could reasonably infer that you went to law school for one thing: money. That was your first mistake. You should only be going to law school if you want to be a lawyer. Let's keep that concept in mind.

Think back to property law. The first question posed to many law students was "What is property?" There, you learned that property is whatever the law deems as needing the protection of the law. You then learned that with the title "property" attached a "bundle of rights." These rights included the right to use, the right to transfer, the right to present possession, etc. Then, many law students learn about the concept of "possession." Where am I going with this? What's the point? The point is that if you failed to grasp the first topic, you'd have difficulty grasping each subsequent topic. In other words, if you screwed up in the beginning, chances are you would screw up in the end. Unless, of course, you busted your ass to make sense of the stuff you screwed up in the beginning while trying to not screw up everything subsequent to it.

It's clear that you screwed up from the very beginning. How? Because as I stated before, you went to law school for one reason: money. Since you screwed up that very first concept, it was highly unlikely that you'd understand each following concept. It's also clear that you didn't bust your ass to make sense of that concept. How is it clear? Because you still think that law school is for one thing: money.

You went to a good school, how the hell you screwed it up is beyond me. I spent my 1L at Suffolk, a fourth tier school, and I had the opportunity to speak with several recent graduates that all had big law jobs. How the hell you screwed it up is beyond me. I did so well, I was able to switch to B.U. The on-campus interview process is already underway, and guess what? I've got a bunch of interviews, and not one of them isn't with a big law firm.

By the way, I'd also like to add that you should have started your little diatribe with your comments on associate happiness at big law jobs despite never having worked in big law. Why should you have started your blog with this? Because it would have established your theme a lot clearer: "I don't know what I'm talking about."

In closing, I'd like to leave you with a variation of Murphy's Law. It reads:
If there exists a wrong way to do something, there also exists someone to do it the wrong way.

posted at 8/24/2005 1:42 PM

By Martin Delgado:

This essay is right on. Let me explain my story. I went to Harvard for undergrad. I scored top scores on the LSAT 175 and had a solid 3.7 GPA. I had a family and lots of debt from undergrad so, although I got excepted into top 14 schools, I decided to hedge my bets and go into a lower tier (59 at the time) school. The top schools give out significantly fewer scholarships, and although I got some money from them, I got a full ride at the smaller school Chicao-Kent. I also wanted to stay near the city with my young family. I wish I would have headed the advice of my friends who said to go to the highest ranked school for any chance of future employment. The FACT is that top firms RARELY ever hire from outside the top 14 or 15. Those who are hired either have connections or performed exceptionally. I biffed ONE exam my first year, which took me down out of the top 10%. Otherwise I got straight As. That exam haunted me for many years. I came to realize that law is a closed guild system. It's run by what amounts to a self perpetuating cotire of lawyers. I had no lawyers in my family at the time, we had immigrated from Mexico. Eventually, I wised up and dropped out. Today I'm a department president of a major health care company. At age 35 I make 300,000. That's more than many partners at Big Law firms make, minus the asshole culture, long hours, and backstabbing. Moral: unless you're at a top 14, maybe top 20, don't do it.

posted at 9/07/2005 3:57 PM

By Martin Delgado:

posted at 9/07/2005 3:58 PM

By jonnyd25:

Just out of curiosity, what are you doing now. I just finished law school and I don't think I want to be a lawyer. I have a business finance undergraduate degree, and I want to be a businessman, do you think this combination is equivalent or better than an MBA. My e-mail is ultravioletdream@hotmail.com and I'm in Eugene, Oregon. Anyone feel free to e-mail me.

posted at 9/08/2005 8:26 PM

By turbo510:

martin delgado, you got "excepted" to some of the top 14 law schools? I can understand typos, but I have a hard time believing how anybody can be "excepted" to a top 14 law school. If you're for real, my mistake for doubting you and congrats on doing well in your business.

posted at 11/18/2005 2:25 AM

By grotos27:

Do not apply to law school if you score below a 160 on your LSAT. Do not attend a fourth tier school unless you are getting some form of a scholarship or are 80% certain you can transfer for 2L.

posted at 12/26/2005 11:27 AM

By grotos27:

This post has been removed by a blog administrator.

posted at 12/26/2005 11:45 AM

By RantMeghanRant:

Law school is not simply a route to a fat pay check and it was never meant to be. Just like med school isn't.

Both are ways for you to learn more about the world around you and put that knowledge to use in some kind of practical application.

I once had a friend who told me that anyone who were to attend law school intending to not practicing law was an idiot. I beg to differ with this opinion as a background in law can provide you with the opportunity to explore many other areas of the private and public sectors outside legal counsel. In fact, by the time you finish law school you should have completed training in two areas... that in which you hold your undergrad degree and your legal training (unless, of course you chose to be a "pre-law" major).

As for needing LSATs over 160 to get into a good law school. This is simply not true. I go to a second tier law school and know many people there who did not achieve 160s on their LSATs. They are intelligent individuals who will be able to forge paths to success despite that.

And as for only a degree from the top "14" law schools in the county being good enough to land a high power, high paying job... bull. It's not always about having some prestigious name listed on your resume. More often than not, it's about how you as an individual present yourself to others and your ability to network. Granted listing a degree from Harvard Law might mean your resume stays out of the "circular file" a moment or two longer than a resume listing a degree from Nobody Law will, if you can't back that line of text up with a solid personality then you might as well have gone to Nobody Law.

posted at 2/11/2006 6:26 PM

By Pleaded Insanity.:

Uh. What. Nope. Not true. You can do fine going to a T4 school.

And don't cite examples as evidence. For everyone that is failed there is somebody that succeeded. Yes, you can't completely fail at your T4 school to succeed.Yes, you have to place higher than at T14 school.Yes, you might have to place in the top 30%.
So, uh. Yes expect to work hard.

and not EVERYONE that goes to law school makes bucko bucks. ....

That shouldn't be a surpise. Nothing is for sure.

You might not be a judge, a senator, a professor. But you'll be fine.

posted at 3/08/2006 3:53 AM

By Siryn:

He's not entirely wrong, but he's not entirely right. There are plenty of people that struggling to find jobs at top 20, top 50 schools.

The fact that the job market in BIGLAW is limited, and we all can't make it there. If you have middling grades, you are not getting into BIGLAW unless you're well-connected because the recruiting offices will put your application in the "thanks for applying, it was a tough decision but we're sure you'll do very well" circular file.

I'm not saying Tiers 2-4 have no hope, as clearly local firms will recruit from local schools, but a lot of people are not aware that they need to apply to law school in the place where they intend to practice.

So yes, thousands of people get suckered because they are not aware that the legal market doesn't pay a whole hell of a lot except if you make it into BIGLAW or are a gifted solo practitioner getting excess verdicts. For those going to very expensive schools but not getting the BIGLAW jobs, that does put you in a very bad financial position if you have to borrow a lot of money to go to school.

100k+ of debt for 40-60k a year will certainly make you wish you did something else.

posted at 3/31/2006 7:15 PM

By Jimmer:

I know of plenty of people who went to top-20 law schools and other who went to top-20 business schools. Over 10 years later, the MBAs are a much happier group. The jobs are more interesting and varied, and because there are more options, there is more room to find careers that allow for more work-life balance if that's what you want. If instead you want to bust your ass working long hours and go for the big bucks, elite long-hours MBA jobs pay a lot more than elite long-hours JD jobs.

posted at 5/30/2006 3:28 PM

By sssss:

i hope you get over this stage in your life and wish you the best.

posted at 6/09/2006 4:07 PM

By suephana:

thanks for the advice:)

posted at 7/12/2006 11:26 PM

By gibeonstar:

HA ha ha ha ha...oh man, this is so incredibly wrong. So amazingly wrong I wonder if you ever actually went to law school, or are just going by what you've read or seen on TV.

posted at 8/12/2006 2:52 AM